Merry Christmas Jan.
Lost in the fog
JoinedPosts by Lost in the fog
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Merry Christmas
by jhine ini don't think that it's too early for my annual merry christmas thread .
merry christmas everyone.
jan .
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why celebrate xmas?
by enoughisenough inmany on here are ex jw....they have left the jws because of coming to find out the many false indoctrinations.
one of the things learned as a jw is that there isn't anything true about xmas being the birth of jesus.
( matt chapter 2 tells a whole different narrative about the baby jesus than what is portrayed by the christian churches) they learn the ways that are celebrated are pagan practices jesus told the samaritan woman that god wanted to be worshipped in spirit and it truth.
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Lost in the fog
Well I grew up inside the religion so I had no experience of celebrating it and the WT told you to steer clear of all the things associated with it because of its pagan origins. I remember talks full of big long quotes out of "The Two Babylons" book by Alexander Hislop (which was also full of ludicrous assumptions and tenuous connection to myths.)
But as I live in the Northern Hemisphere when winter nights are dark and cold, I personally used to be cheered up walking home from the meetings and seeing white lights festooned on deciduous tree branches. It was light in the darkness.
After I went fully POMO I had no issue sending Christmas cards to friends and acquaintances, or giving a gift to work colleagues to say thank-you for all of their hard work in the year gone past. I enjoyed the mince pies, the works parties with Xmas Fare and the boss buying alcoholic beverages for their staff!
Was it a rebellion against my JW upbringing? No it wasn't. It was me being a normal human being in the society beyond 'The Society'.
The early Christian Church celebrated festivals fully aware that they were created to supplant the pagan ones. They simply dedicated the festival to God/Jesus instead of whichever pagan deity had owned the occasion previously. In fact, when you think about it Jehovah Witnesses do the same thing in a similar way. They buy an old church or church hall, strip it out and convert it into a kingdom hall. Then they have (in our case it was someone over from the Bethel) to give a Dedication Talk and rededicate the building "to the worship of Jehovah God in the local community". So what's the difference I ask you?
And finally, Bro CT Russell had no issue with celebrating Christmas. In the December 1, 1904 WT magazine, Page 3468, this is what he wrote:
The way I see it, I have no problems joining in and celebrating a joyous and bright festival in the middle of a dark, dismal season of the year. If you, for whatever reason, don't wish to that's up to you, but no worries.
And while I am here "Season's Greetings to Everyone" and wishing us all a happy and healthy New Year 2023 whatever you believe.
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Anyone know of specific subliminal pictures?
by cognac inthe only one i know about is the big jesus in the revelation book.. know of any specific other ones?
i want to show hubby....
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Lost in the fog
I can remember an elder in our former congregation pointing out the demonic faces (hidden, in plain sight) in the big red Live Forever book.
And a few months later the WT came out saying something along the lines that this was untrue and a slight on the hardworking artists in the art department at Bethel.
I'll have to try and see if I still have the book in a box up in the loft. If I do I'll post the pictures we were shown and you can make up your own mind.
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It's Time To Move On When...
by Lost in the fog ini spotted this on a mental health website.
it has to do with relationships but could equally apply to breaking up with your church and moving on.. https://themindsjournal.com/signs-let-go-move-on/.
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Lost in the fog
I spotted this on a Mental Health website. It has to do with relationships but could equally apply to breaking up with your church and moving on.
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Known Sex Offender, yet unanimously einstated in 2011! Typical.
by Lost in the fog ini've copied and pasted this entire newspaper article from yesterday in full as just using the link hits a paywall.... berks judge lowers bail for former berks man accused of molesting boys in '90s.. steven henshaw, reading eagle, pa.. thu, december 8, 2022 at 4:59 am·4 min read.
dec. 7—a berks county judge on wednesday halved the $1.5 million bail amount that had been set for a georgia man while he awaits recently filed charges that he sexually assaulted two boys in the 1990s while living in the hamburg area.. jesse j. hill, 52, remained in the county jail in lieu of $750,000 cash bail to await a preliminary hearing following wednesday's bail hearing before judge patrick t. barrett.
the defendant followed the hearing from a cellblock in the basement of the courthouse via closed-circuit video.. state attorney general josh shapiro's office alleges that hill leveraged his family's trusted name within their jehovah's witnesses religious community to prey on boys as young as 9 during the 1990s, plying his victims with trips to the mall and r-rated movies, alcohol, marijuana and candy, according to the charges.. hill's lawyer, jay nigrini, petitioned the court for bail modification, arguing that hill's substantial local ties — he has resided in berks nearly all of his life — puts him at extremely low risk of fleeing prosecution.
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Lost in the fog
I've copied and pasted this entire newspaper article from yesterday in full as just using the link hits a paywall...
BERKS JUDGE LOWERS BAIL FOR FORMER BERKS MAN ACCUSED OF MOLESTING BOYS IN '90s.
Steven Henshaw, Reading Eagle, Pa.
Thu, December 8, 2022 at 4:59 AM·4 min read
Dec. 7—A Berks County judge on Wednesday halved the $1.5 million bail amount that had been set for a Georgia man while he awaits recently filed charges that he sexually assaulted two boys in the 1990s while living in the Hamburg area.
Jesse J. Hill, 52, remained in the county jail in lieu of $750,000 cash bail to await a preliminary hearing following Wednesday's bail hearing before Judge Patrick T. Barrett. The defendant followed the hearing from a cellblock in the basement of the courthouse via closed-circuit video.
State Attorney General Josh Shapiro's office alleges that Hill leveraged his family's trusted name within their Jehovah's Witnesses religious community to prey on boys as young as 9 during the 1990s, plying his victims with trips to the mall and R-rated movies, alcohol, marijuana and candy, according to the charges.
Hill's lawyer, Jay Nigrini, petitioned the court for bail modification, arguing that Hill's substantial local ties — he has resided in Berks nearly all of his life — puts him at extremely low risk of fleeing prosecution. He asked that bail be set at $125,000, which is the amount originally set by a district judge at Hlll's arraignment on child rape and indecent assault charges.
The main purpose of bail, he said, is to ensure the defendant will show up for court.
During the hearing, Nigrini said Hill plans to relocate to Berks while awaiting trial and has given power of attorney to a family member to execute the sale of his Georgia home.
He added that Hill had no criminal record before his arrest in late October.
Assistant Chief Deputy Attorney General Daniel J. Dye, in the commonwealth's response to the defendant's motion and in oral arguments Wednesday, said authorities are concerned that Hill has great incentive to flee, given the seriousness of the charges. If convicted, Hill would likely be sentenced to decades in prison.
Hill's family has considerable resources, Dye said, owning a multimillion-dollar machine manufacturing company headquartered in Hamburg.
Dye also emphasized the need to protect the community.
Since it began an investigation of Hill in 2019 as part of a larger investigation of alleged widespread sexual abuse of children within Jehovah's Witnesses congregations in Pennsylvania, the attorney general's office has identified two children with whom Hill had inappropriate contact, Dye said.
At the time of his arrest in Georgia on a warrant from Pennsylvania, Hill was in possession of a season pass to Wild Adventures, a theme park in Valdosta, Ga., Dye said.
"The defendant's averment that he will return to Berks County and await trial is no comfort," Dye wrote in his response to the bail-modification motion and referred to in oral arguments. "It was in Berks County where he committed his crimes and, in spite of full knowledge of his crimes, no one did anything to stop him."
The motion refers to thousands of documents obtained by the attorney general's office from the Jehovah's Witnesses headquarters in New York as part of the investigation.
Documents show that in 1998 Hill was referred to a committee of two elders. Based on Hill's admission to sexually molesting nine boys, he was labeled in internal documents as a "known child molester," Dye said. Despite this, records show the elders of the Kutztown congregation unanimously voted to reinstate Hill in 2011.
Nigrini objected to testimony on the contents of internal documents, saying their admissibility in a criminal trial has yet to to be determined. He said most of the elders whose names appear on those documents are deceased.
Barrett overruled the objection but directed Dye to go no further with the content of the case.
The judge said both sides have compelling arguments. On one hand, he said, protection of the community is paramount given the gravity of the alleged offenses. On the other, $1.5 million is an unreasonable amount for bail, he said.
Barrett added that he doesn't believe that Hill moved to Georgia, where he bought a house under his own name, with the intent of hiding from authorities.
While saying his decision was not informed "by the wisdom of Solomon," Barrett said he would reduce the bail to $750,000.
He suggested the best remedy would be a speedy trial and urged Nigrini to prepare for that to happen.
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A Further Land Grab.
by Lost in the fog inhttps://eu.recordonline.com/story/news/local/2022/11/29/jehovahs-witnesses-ramapo-campus-will-expand-growing-hudson-valley-empire/69674158007/.
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Lost in the fog
So here's the article -
"Jehovah's witnesses campus plans in Ramapo will expand a growing Hudson Valley empire.
Jehovah's Witnesses have always sought converts through print: those familiar booklets with Bible lessons that volunteers bring door-to-door to share their Christian beliefs. But outreach has evolved in the digital age. The Warwick-based religious order, which has an estimated 8.7 million members worldwide, is preparing to build a giant complex in Ramapo, two miles from its headquarters, where it will record Bible-based films, videos and other audio-visual materials that the group now uses to advance its mission. The 249-acre campus will include movie soundstages, offices and apartment buildings to house up to 1,240 volunteer workers.
The project, in the works since 2019, cleared a major hurdle this month when Ramapo officials approved a zoning change it needed. The Jehovah's Witnesses hope to get site-plan approvals by June and then start construction, which is expected to take around four years.
The religious order has long had a presence in the Hudson Valley, from its printing plant, farm and residential complex in Ulster County to its 373-acre missionary school campus across the river in Putnam County. But it has greatly expanded its footprint in the region since deciding to leave its century-old headquarters in Brooklyn, starting with its $20 million purchase in 2009 of the former International Nickel campus in Warwick that would become its new base.
The group has since spent TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MORE in three counties on buildings to house its volunteer workforce, as well as on other properties. In 2014 alone, it bought a pair of hotels in the town of Newburgh for $45 MILLION and a 250-unit, luxury apartment complex in Fishkill for $57 MILLION, according to property records. The group also bought a Montgomery warehouse for $8.8 MILLION that same year and a senior-housing complex under construction in Fishkill for $4.5 MILLION in 2015.
Most of its properties are tax-exempt for religious reasons, a sore point with some town tax officials when the Time Herald-Record examined in 2015 the holdings the Jehovah's Witnesses had amassed by then. The group has also been praised for its civic contributions.
Tax exempt: Watchtower's growth strains town budgets in mid-Hudson. Jehovah's Witnesses plan to buy a third Fishkill property. The Watchtower, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, has obtained a partial tax exemption for the Rivercrest apartment complex in the Town of Fishkill.
In 2014, the Jehovah's Witnesses bought Rivercrest, a 250-unit, luxury apartment complex in Fishkill for $57 MILLION, according to property records.
The massive new media complex will use clean energy.
The audio-visual production complex will be built on woodlands at the border of Orange and Rockland counties that the group bought for $11.5 MILLION in 2009. The property is off Sterling Mine Road, near the Eagle Valley housing development in Tuxedo, and was previously slated for a housing project that never came to fruition. It consists of 242 acres in Ramapo, which is in in Rockland, and seven acres in Tuxedo, which is in Orange.
The plans include a 227,000-square-foot studio building and a separate office complex; ten, five-story apartment buildings with 545 one-bedroom units and 100 studio units; a 130,000-square-foot building to hold events; and a 121,000-square-foot visitor center. All told, the complex would encompass 1.7 million square feet, making it a bit larger than the group's nearby headquarters in Orange County."
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A Further Land Grab.
by Lost in the fog inhttps://eu.recordonline.com/story/news/local/2022/11/29/jehovahs-witnesses-ramapo-campus-will-expand-growing-hudson-valley-empire/69674158007/.
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Lost in the fog
It's funny I was talking to a "still in for now" friend who said that he was disgusted by the WT study yesterday.
He was moaning that it was all if you don't do such and such your name can be rubbed out, you're in but not guaranteed to win etc, etc. His objection was that when he reads the New Testament all of the Christian writers were assured and certain of their reward, none of this wishy-washy approach.
It was refreshing to hear him because I figure that it won't be long until he decides enough is enough and walks.
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I`m going out on a limb here ! ....PIMO
by smiddy3 inpimo , as i said i`m going out on a limb here and i might upset some people ,but i really don`t think this is a real strategy that works and doesn`t help the person who is still in.. while you may be doing this to keep the peace in the household and keep relations somewhat stable in the family arrangement ,it`s not helping the person who is still under the control of wt/gb to break free from it ,and isn`t that what you would really like to happen ?.
and are their children involved as well ?
that`s another issue ,the longer they are subject to this control the harder it will be for them to disengage get free.. maybe you should re-evaluate what you could do more to help your partner / spouse or whatever to free themselves from this bondage they have involved themselves in.. [ of course their may be others who are quite happy to have their partners/mates under the control of the wt/gb.
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Lost in the fog
I personally found that being PIMO led to mental illness. Every time I went back to the congregation I wanted to scream out "Hypocrites, Liars" because nothing made logical sense to me anymore. The only way to stop myself having a total breakdown was to withdraw myself completely and choose POMO.
Whatever path you personally decide to choose I wish you the best now and into the future...
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Red Flags identifying Jehovah's Witnesses as a Cult
by Vanderhoven7 inwhat are some of the red flags that should alert people to the fact that jehovah's witnesses are a high control and damaging religion?.
one that comes to mind is.
1. one cannot leave jehovah's witnesses with one's reputation intact.
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Lost in the fog
Don't forget that if you express a genuine serious concern you will immediately be labelled as a troublemaker because you are NOT ALLOWED to question anything said either from the platform or in print from the Faithful Slabber, no matter how ridiculous or made up it appears to be.
One way to quickly find yourself in the backroom facing an inquisition by 3 or more unqualified elders is to respond to questions about your recent criticism of an item you heard from the platform and orally expressed as stupid in front of several of your peers: is to go with 4 simple little words.... "Go F**k Yourselves Brothers".